Comments on: Betfair’s Liability in relation to its software failing http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/ Prediction Markets, etc. Thu, 02 Feb 2012 23:13:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Medemi http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27572 Medemi Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:34:30 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27572 Bookmakers like Hill will close "markets" when it appears insiders are active because it will cost them money if they don't. Exchanges don't have that incentive. In fact, insider activity will result in increased volume and profits for betfair. They gain when punters are ripping each other off, and the irony of it is that most customers don't care until it hits them in a big way *and* they have become aware of it. Even if an exchange decides to close a market and void all bets, it will result in bad publicity more often than not. So there you have a real problem that needs to be fixed by the regulator. It shouldn't be up to the exchange because whatever they do, they can't get it right. More so, because it is the sports industry as a whole and the average consumer, who have no involvement with betting exchanges whatsoever, who will be victimized. The Gambling Commission is not up for the task and betting exchanges will only be taken seriously when they are being regulated by a proper body with the necessary experience. Like the FSA. The public decides, in the end, but the public doesn't seem interested. Until it is too late. So there you go again... we all get what we deserve. Bookmakers like Hill will close “markets” when it appears insiders are active because it will cost them money if they don’t. Exchanges don’t have that incentive. In fact, insider activity will result in increased volume and profits for betfair. They gain when punters are ripping each other off, and the irony of it is that most customers don’t care until it hits them in a big way *and* they have become aware of it.
Even if an exchange decides to close a market and void all bets, it will result in bad publicity more often than not. So there you have a real problem that needs to be fixed by the regulator. It shouldn’t be up to the exchange because whatever they do, they can’t get it right. More so, because it is the sports industry as a whole and the average consumer, who have no involvement with betting exchanges whatsoever, who will be victimized.
The Gambling Commission is not up for the task and betting exchanges will only be taken seriously when they are being regulated by a proper body with the necessary experience. Like the FSA.
The public decides, in the end, but the public doesn’t seem interested. Until it is too late. So there you go again… we all get what we deserve.

]]> By: Niall O'Connor http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27571 Niall O'Connor Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:13:34 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27571 The relationship between William Hill and the betting exchanges has not been a good one. On January 29, 2003, David Harding on the subject of Betfair's impact on the the over-round said; "Some racecourse markets now return overrounds of only 1.2 to 1.3 per cent per runner. That is not sustainable. I cannot have a price mechanism for 50% of my business being desecrated. In a recent interview with Betview magazine Ralph Topping, Hills' current head said of the exchanges; "'I call Betfair the choirboys of the betting industry – “look at us we're so innocent” – actually the exchanges are the biggest Masonic lodge there is. They're a massive secret society where illegal gambling is taking place. What would throw a spanner in the works is if William Hill came up with an exchange model which could be offered in our betting shops or through our telephone business." The relationship between William Hill and the betting exchanges has not been a good one. On January 29, 2003, David Harding on the subject of Betfair’s impact on the the over-round said; “Some racecourse markets now return overrounds of only 1.2 to 1.3 per cent per runner. That is not sustainable. I cannot have a price mechanism for 50% of my business being desecrated. In a recent interview with Betview magazine Ralph Topping, Hills’ current head said of the exchanges; “‘I call Betfair the choirboys of the betting industry – “look at us we’re so innocent” – actually the exchanges are the biggest Masonic lodge there is. They’re a massive secret society where illegal gambling is taking place. What would throw a spanner in the works is if William Hill came up with an exchange model which could be offered in our betting shops or through our telephone business.”

]]> By: Medemi http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27565 Medemi Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:25:44 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27565 >> It is through a failure in regulation that Betfair is indeed licenced as a bookmaker You are correct. >> It is through a failure in regulation that Betfair is indeed licenced as a bookmaker

You are correct.

]]> By: Niall O'Connor http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27564 Niall O'Connor Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:24:32 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27564 Medemi Saying that Betfair is a bookmaker, is not only incorrect, but also lets them of the hook. It is through a failure in regulation that Betfair is indeed licenced as a bookmaker, but, actually, this does not make it a bookmaker. (at the very least, and most simplistic, the Betfair model ensures that Betfair itself is devoid of risk; something that does not pertain for a licenced bookmaker). Betfair is an exchange, and exchanges, need, have, deserve unique regulatory structures. Perhaps I could point you in the direction of this book; http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Exchange-Automation-Management-Regulation/dp/0198297041/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265278745&sr=1-1 The fact that the UK's gambling commission are not fit for purpose vis a vis the regulation of Betfair is the question at hand. Were Betfair to be classified as a licenced exchange, and regulated accordingly, then there would be greater protections in place for Betfair traders. Medemi

Saying that Betfair is a bookmaker, is not only incorrect, but also lets them of the hook.
It is through a failure in regulation that Betfair is indeed licenced as a bookmaker, but, actually, this does not make it a bookmaker. (at the very least, and most simplistic, the Betfair model ensures that Betfair itself is devoid of risk; something that does not pertain for a licenced bookmaker).

Betfair is an exchange, and exchanges, need, have, deserve unique regulatory structures. Perhaps I could point you in the direction of this book;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Exchange-Automation-Management-Regulation/dp/0198297041/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265278745&sr=1-1

The fact that the UK’s gambling commission are not fit for purpose vis a vis the regulation of Betfair is the question at hand. Were Betfair to be classified as a licenced exchange, and regulated accordingly, then there would be greater protections in place for Betfair traders.

]]> By: Medemi http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27561 Medemi Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:20:25 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27561 Perhaps the conclusion should be that Betfair is nothing more than another gambling site, although some of us would like it to be more than that. Perhaps the conclusion should be that Betfair is nothing more than another gambling site, although some of us would like it to be more than that.

]]> By: Medemi http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27560 Medemi Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:05:13 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27560 Niall, >> An exchange is not a fixed odds bookmakers and it needs to regulated in a different manner. Betfair is a licensed bookmaker. Your bets are with them. Not many people know this, because betfair want to keep the appearance of being a P2P betting exchange. As long as it suits them. Betfair welcome the traders too, but when the site goes down their clients have to pay the price. The Gambling Commission know all this, but it seems they are in a tough position with betfair threatening to leave if the GC gives them a hard time. Interesting forces at play, IMO. But not good for the consumer. >> I will expose the Gambling Commission for the fools that they are. Good luck with that. Niall,

>> An exchange is not a fixed odds bookmakers and it needs to regulated in a different manner.

Betfair is a licensed bookmaker. Your bets are with them. Not many people know this, because betfair want to keep the appearance of being a P2P betting exchange. As long as it suits them.
Betfair welcome the traders too, but when the site goes down their clients have to pay the price.
The Gambling Commission know all this, but it seems they are in a tough position with betfair threatening to leave if the GC gives them a hard time. Interesting forces at play, IMO. But not good for the consumer.

>> I will expose the Gambling Commission for the fools that they are.

Good luck with that.

]]> By: Niall O'Connor http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27558 Niall O'Connor Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:13:37 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27558 Forgive typos; it's late and I am trading - shorting GBP against the USD. Forgive typos; it’s late and I am trading – shorting GBP against the USD.

]]> By: Niall O'Connor http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27557 Niall O'Connor Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:11:00 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27557 Medemi The point is one of regulation. If Betfair are insured for each time that their software fails, and they are unable to run complete markets on events, then, one would assue that there is little reason for them not to simplay void such markets. The 2.40 at Fontwell, was available fro five mins; then the site began to crash and ir was not possible to trade out open positions; then the site crashed. Betfair have now answered a number of questions I posed to them. They have accepted that this statement was flase; “As the site was not available to any customers between 2 – 4pm, no bets were placed during this time.” They accept that I placed a bet at 2.35; but they have no record of the fact that on five occasions I tried to lay my bet off. There are serious issues here, and I will pursue them. An exchange is not a fixed odds bookmakers and it needs to regulated in a different manner. I will expose the Gambling Commission for the fools that they are. Medemi

The point is one of regulation. If Betfair are insured for each time that their software fails, and they are unable to run complete markets on events, then, one would assue that there is little reason for them not to simplay void such markets. The 2.40 at Fontwell, was available fro five mins; then the site began to crash and ir was not possible to trade out open positions; then the site crashed.

Betfair have now answered a number of questions I posed to them. They have accepted that this statement was flase; “As the site was not available to any customers between 2 – 4pm, no bets were placed during this time.”

They accept that I placed a bet at 2.35; but they have no record of the fact that on five occasions I tried to lay my bet off.

There are serious issues here, and I will pursue them. An exchange is not a fixed odds bookmakers and it needs to regulated in a different manner.

I will expose the Gambling Commission for the fools that they are.

]]> By: Medemi http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27555 Medemi Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:03:55 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27555 Niall, lots of folks before you have lost a big chunk of their money, but Betfair welcome the commission anyway. The platform isn't suitable for trading. As for the Gambling Commission, they don't even care when Betfair's software works... Niall,

lots of folks before you have lost a big chunk of their money, but Betfair welcome the commission anyway. The platform isn’t suitable for trading.
As for the Gambling Commission, they don’t even care when Betfair’s software works…

]]> By: Chris F. Masse http://www.midasoracle.org/2010/01/27/betfairs-liability-in-relation-to-its-software-failing/#comment-27554 Chris F. Masse Thu, 28 Jan 2010 10:54:13 +0000 http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=20268#comment-27554 "Betfair would like to apologise for the unplanned site outage that occurred earlier this afternoon [Monday, January 25, 2010]." http://site.forum.betfair.com/jive3/betex/ThreadsFrameset.jsp?forumID=9&forumName=Service&threadID=2212124&tName=Unplanned+site+outage&schatname=&iMessageCount=3 “Betfair would like to apologise for the unplanned site outage that occurred earlier this afternoon [Monday, January 25, 2010].”

http://site.forum.betfair.com/jive3/betex/ThreadsFrameset.jsp?forumID=9&forumName=Service&threadID=2212124&tName=Unplanned+site+outage&schatname=&iMessageCount=3

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