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	<title>Comments on: Can a Keynesian beauty contest improve Pres. Obamaâ€™s suggestion box for U.S government employees?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/</link>
	<description>Prediction Markets, etc.</description>
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		<title>By: Jason Ruspini</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-26276</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Ruspini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-26276</guid>
		<description>&quot;Tyler Durden&quot; at zerohedge.com:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/nicolas-sarkozy-joins-afl-cio-demanding-tobin-tax-all-financial-institutions

That post particularly annoys me.  He says something untrue - that only large, institutional high frequency traders would be affected by tobin tax - that is very aggressive towards a swath of his readers and simultaneously suggests a lack of experience. (Not to mention the later naive-sounding comment about the politics of the situation, which I really hope was just  sarcasm.)  Overall, you wonder whether he&#039;s more interested in reporting on finance or stirring up controversies to charge his self-aggrandizement capacitor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Tyler Durden&#8221; at zerohedge.com:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.zerohedge.com/article/nicolas-sarkozy-joins-afl-cio-demanding-tobin-tax-all-financial-institutions" rel="nofollow">http://www.zerohedge.com/article/nicolas-sarkozy-joins-afl-cio-demanding-tobin-tax-all-financial-institutions</a></p>
<p>That post particularly annoys me.  He says something untrue &#8211; that only large, institutional high frequency traders would be affected by tobin tax &#8211; that is very aggressive towards a swath of his readers and simultaneously suggests a lack of experience. (Not to mention the later naive-sounding comment about the politics of the situation, which I really hope was just  sarcasm.)  Overall, you wonder whether he&#8217;s more interested in reporting on finance or stirring up controversies to charge his self-aggrandizement capacitor.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25880</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25880</guid>
		<description>&quot;Tyler Durdenâ€ @ Zerohedge&quot;

Where does this guy post comments?

P.S.: You didn&#039;t commit any crime, since you sticked with your anonymous comment. All was ethical. Emile drinks too much coffee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Tyler Durdenâ€ @ Zerohedge&#8221;</p>
<p>Where does this guy post comments?</p>
<p>P.S.: You didn&#8217;t commit any crime, since you sticked with your anonymous comment. All was ethical. Emile drinks too much coffee.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Ruspini</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25866</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Ruspini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25866</guid>
		<description>I try not to post or comment on blogs during the working day.  In the future, I&#039;ll wait to comment in my own name to avoid misunderstandings.

I share disdain for anonymity that provides cover for gutter-sniping, particularly when facts are stylized.  Sometimes the &quot;Tyler Durden&quot; @ Zerohedge  guy goes in that direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I try not to post or comment on blogs during the working day.  In the future, I&#8217;ll wait to comment in my own name to avoid misunderstandings.</p>
<p>I share disdain for anonymity that provides cover for gutter-sniping, particularly when facts are stylized.  Sometimes the &#8220;Tyler Durden&#8221; @ Zerohedge  guy goes in that direction.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25851</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25851</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think weâ€™re generally on the same page.&quot;

Good, so I was right to publish that comment, then. [Few comments on Midas Oracle are anonymous. When they are, they are sometimes helpful in starting a discussion, as in this case.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think weâ€™re generally on the same page.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good, so I was right to publish that comment, then. [Few comments on Midas Oracle are anonymous. When they are, they are sometimes helpful in starting a discussion, as in this case.]</p>
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		<title>By: Jed Christiansen</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25845</link>
		<dc:creator>Jed Christiansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25845</guid>
		<description>To be honest, I hadn&#039;t read Jason&#039;s comment before I wrote mine.  Now that I have, I think we&#039;re generally on the same page.  Many of these mechanisms are in a place that is neither a strict beauty contest nor a strict prediction market.  Depending on how the decision-makers are influenced by the market outcomes determines which way (and to what degree) the mechanism falls.

I can understand Emile&#039;s irritation of the &quot;Deep Throat&quot; comment.  A &quot;Deep Throat&quot; may be useful where there&#039;s inside information that would otherwise not be known (aka back-room CFTC issues), and would be hazardous for that individual to reveal.  But when it comes to simple commentary, it&#039;s cowardly to stand behind a pseudonym.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, I hadn&#8217;t read Jason&#8217;s comment before I wrote mine.  Now that I have, I think we&#8217;re generally on the same page.  Many of these mechanisms are in a place that is neither a strict beauty contest nor a strict prediction market.  Depending on how the decision-makers are influenced by the market outcomes determines which way (and to what degree) the mechanism falls.</p>
<p>I can understand Emile&#8217;s irritation of the &#8220;Deep Throat&#8221; comment.  A &#8220;Deep Throat&#8221; may be useful where there&#8217;s inside information that would otherwise not be known (aka back-room CFTC issues), and would be hazardous for that individual to reveal.  But when it comes to simple commentary, it&#8217;s cowardly to stand behind a pseudonym.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25760</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25760</guid>
		<description>&quot;grey middle ground&quot;
&quot;close to the beauty contest&quot;

Jed&#039;s comment resembles Jason&#039;s comment:
http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/deep-throats-take-of-emiles-take-of-the-save-program/#comment-25671</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;grey middle ground&#8221;<br />
&#8220;close to the beauty contest&#8221;</p>
<p>Jed&#8217;s comment resembles Jason&#8217;s comment:<br />
<a href="http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/deep-throats-take-of-emiles-take-of-the-save-program/#comment-25671" rel="nofollow">http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/deep-throats-take-of-emiles-take-of-the-save-program/#comment-25671</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jed Christiansen</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25759</link>
		<dc:creator>Jed Christiansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25759</guid>
		<description>The IBM SmarterCities was absolutely a beauty contest, as the winners were decided by total amount that had been &quot;bet&quot; on each outcome.

There is a grey middle ground, which is essentially down to the internal mechanisms of the organization running the market.  Are they lazy and only ever look at the outcomes that get a lot of votes?  Then that is very close to the beauty contest.  Or do they process everything separately and come to their own conclusion, no matter what the market says?  Then that would be a classical prediction market.

The devil is in these details.  And unfortunately, the details are rarely discussed, making threads like these a bit more opaque.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The IBM SmarterCities was absolutely a beauty contest, as the winners were decided by total amount that had been &#8220;bet&#8221; on each outcome.</p>
<p>There is a grey middle ground, which is essentially down to the internal mechanisms of the organization running the market.  Are they lazy and only ever look at the outcomes that get a lot of votes?  Then that is very close to the beauty contest.  Or do they process everything separately and come to their own conclusion, no matter what the market says?  Then that would be a classical prediction market.</p>
<p>The devil is in these details.  And unfortunately, the details are rarely discussed, making threads like these a bit more opaque.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25678</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 07:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25678</guid>
		<description>Jason Ruspini&#039;s comment, here:
http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/deep-throats-take-of-emiles-take-of-the-save-program/#comment-25671</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason Ruspini&#8217;s comment, here:<br />
<a href="http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/deep-throats-take-of-emiles-take-of-the-save-program/#comment-25671" rel="nofollow">http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/deep-throats-take-of-emiles-take-of-the-save-program/#comment-25671</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Giberson</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25657</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Giberson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25657</guid>
		<description>I just noticed that Jed Christiansen also invoked a &quot;Keynesian beauty contest&quot; critique in response to Chris Masse&#039;s post on  the &quot;IBM Smarter Cities&quot; mechanism.  That post yielded 39 comments (so far), mostly on the appropriateness of the &quot;prediction market&quot; label for the information aggregation tool employed.  Jed points out a problem with using a prediction market to forecast the &quot;best ideas&quot; rather the the &quot;best outcomes,&quot; and suggests that &quot;best idea&quot; type markets should be tied to long-term project developments and results.

Jed&#039;s post: &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.mercury-rac.com/2009/08/30/starting-from-the-wrong-metaphor-prediction-markets-and-ideas/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Starting from the wrong metaphor â€“ Prediction Markets and Ideas&lt;/a&gt;

Chris&#039;s post: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/08/27/ibm-smarter-cities-prediction-markets-spigit/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Are IBM Smarter Cities prediction markets too smart for people?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just noticed that Jed Christiansen also invoked a &#8220;Keynesian beauty contest&#8221; critique in response to Chris Masse&#8217;s post on  the &#8220;IBM Smarter Cities&#8221; mechanism.  That post yielded 39 comments (so far), mostly on the appropriateness of the &#8220;prediction market&#8221; label for the information aggregation tool employed.  Jed points out a problem with using a prediction market to forecast the &#8220;best ideas&#8221; rather the the &#8220;best outcomes,&#8221; and suggests that &#8220;best idea&#8221; type markets should be tied to long-term project developments and results.</p>
<p>Jed&#8217;s post: <a href="http://blog.mercury-rac.com/2009/08/30/starting-from-the-wrong-metaphor-prediction-markets-and-ideas/" rel="nofollow">Starting from the wrong metaphor â€“ Prediction Markets and Ideas</a></p>
<p>Chris&#8217;s post: <a href="http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/08/27/ibm-smarter-cities-prediction-markets-spigit/" rel="nofollow">Are IBM Smarter Cities prediction markets too smart for people?</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Giberson</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/09/24/can-a-keynesian-beauty-contest-improve-pres-obama%e2%80%99s-suggestion-box-for-u-s-government-employees/#comment-25656</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Giberson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=17335#comment-25656</guid>
		<description>Emile, I agree that your proposal was not exactly a Keynesian beauty contest.  I tried to be careful in my explanation by writing &quot;If the short list was actually &lt;i&gt;determined by the betting rather than independently&lt;/i&gt;...&quot;, then the process turns into a Keynesian beauty contest.

As you presented the idea, you suggest betting on what the OMB will short list, or what the President will pick. Given the inherently political nature of OMB and Presidential decisionmaking, these picks will not necessarily be the best idea on the merits but instead the best idea as constrained by the politics.  I suppose the political constraint is inherent in governmental decisionmaking - and certainly not caused by your proposed mechanism - but my first point was only that the best betting would similarly not aim for the merits but rather aim for the political choice.

However, if the OMB&#039;s choice of short list is, as you put it, &quot;informed by the crowd&#039;s aggregate choice,&quot; then a &lt;i&gt;bit&lt;/i&gt; of the beauty contest creeps back in because the payoff becomes linked to which ideas are most favored in the betting.  My second point is a conjecture that only if the OMB&#039;s selection process is independent of betting results does the process fully escape the beauty contest problem.

You of course have practical experience using related approaches, and my commentary is more theoretical.  In practice, there may be factors which prevent the mechanism from devolving in the beauty contest fashion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emile, I agree that your proposal was not exactly a Keynesian beauty contest.  I tried to be careful in my explanation by writing &#8220;If the short list was actually <i>determined by the betting rather than independently</i>&#8230;&#8221;, then the process turns into a Keynesian beauty contest.</p>
<p>As you presented the idea, you suggest betting on what the OMB will short list, or what the President will pick. Given the inherently political nature of OMB and Presidential decisionmaking, these picks will not necessarily be the best idea on the merits but instead the best idea as constrained by the politics.  I suppose the political constraint is inherent in governmental decisionmaking &#8211; and certainly not caused by your proposed mechanism &#8211; but my first point was only that the best betting would similarly not aim for the merits but rather aim for the political choice.</p>
<p>However, if the OMB&#8217;s choice of short list is, as you put it, &#8220;informed by the crowd&#8217;s aggregate choice,&#8221; then a <i>bit</i> of the beauty contest creeps back in because the payoff becomes linked to which ideas are most favored in the betting.  My second point is a conjecture that only if the OMB&#8217;s selection process is independent of betting results does the process fully escape the beauty contest problem.</p>
<p>You of course have practical experience using related approaches, and my commentary is more theoretical.  In practice, there may be factors which prevent the mechanism from devolving in the beauty contest fashion.</p>
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