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	<title>Comments on: Collective Forecasting, Anyone?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/</link>
	<description>Prediction Markets, etc.</description>
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		<title>By: Medemi</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24100</link>
		<dc:creator>Medemi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 18:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24100</guid>
		<description>Chris,

I like &quot;collective forecasting&quot; , the way it sounds. A lot of your criticism is redundant because we already have the word &quot;collective&quot; in there. Also, take a look at the definitions and you can see why &quot;forecasting&quot; is actually superior to &quot;predictions&quot;.

&quot;Forecast&quot;
1. To estimate or calculate in advance, especially to predict (weather conditions) by analysis of meteorological data. See synonyms at predict.
2. To serve as an advance indication of; foreshadow

Explanation 2 is right on the mark.

&quot;Prediction&quot;
1. The act of predicting.
2. Something foretold or predicted; a prophecy

Now, surely you don&#039;t have to ask yourself where all the hype came from...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>I like &#8220;collective forecasting&#8221; , the way it sounds. A lot of your criticism is redundant because we already have the word &#8220;collective&#8221; in there. Also, take a look at the definitions and you can see why &#8220;forecasting&#8221; is actually superior to &#8220;predictions&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Forecast&#8221;<br />
1. To estimate or calculate in advance, especially to predict (weather conditions) by analysis of meteorological data. See synonyms at predict.<br />
2. To serve as an advance indication of; foreshadow</p>
<p>Explanation 2 is right on the mark.</p>
<p>&#8220;Prediction&#8221;<br />
1. The act of predicting.<br />
2. Something foretold or predicted; a prophecy</p>
<p>Now, surely you don&#8217;t have to ask yourself where all the hype came from&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24097</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 17:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24097</guid>
		<description>Great, 16 comments on this post alone, all that on Memorial Day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great, 16 comments on this post alone, all that on Memorial Day.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24096</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 17:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24096</guid>
		<description>Will the professional forecasters accept that &quot;forecasting&quot; encompasses the prediction markets and the other non-trading information aggregation mechanisms that predict?

&quot;Forecasting&quot; is different than &quot;predicting&quot;:
http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/25/predict-forecast-dictionary/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will the professional forecasters accept that &#8220;forecasting&#8221; encompasses the prediction markets and the other non-trading information aggregation mechanisms that predict?</p>
<p>&#8220;Forecasting&#8221; is different than &#8220;predicting&#8221;:<br />
<a href="http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/25/predict-forecast-dictionary/" rel="nofollow">http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/25/predict-forecast-dictionary/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24094</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 16:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24094</guid>
		<description>â€œcompletely different standpoint *than* forecastingâ€

Traditional forecasting is done by an expert of a small team of experts. Collective intelligence that predicts is done self selected people, or a large group of non-selected people. They all act as information bees.

Yes, that is completely different. That is why traditional forecasting and prediction markets (or else) was not put in the same &quot;boat&quot;.

&quot;whatâ€™s wrong with putting them in the same boat?&quot;
Because of the definition of &quot;forecasting&quot;, which I said that I believe is about mainly predictive modeling.

Now, the big boat is &quot;predicting&quot;, of course. The whole polemique was started because I believe that the word &quot;forecasting&quot; is a sub of &quot;predicting&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>â€œcompletely different standpoint *than* forecastingâ€</p>
<p>Traditional forecasting is done by an expert of a small team of experts. Collective intelligence that predicts is done self selected people, or a large group of non-selected people. They all act as information bees.</p>
<p>Yes, that is completely different. That is why traditional forecasting and prediction markets (or else) was not put in the same &#8220;boat&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;whatâ€™s wrong with putting them in the same boat?&#8221;<br />
Because of the definition of &#8220;forecasting&#8221;, which I said that I believe is about mainly predictive modeling.</p>
<p>Now, the big boat is &#8220;predicting&#8221;, of course. The whole polemique was started because I believe that the word &#8220;forecasting&#8221; is a sub of &#8220;predicting&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24095</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 15:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24095</guid>
		<description>&quot;Collective prediction&quot; sounds a lot more awkward to my ear than &quot;collective forecasting.&quot;  &quot;Collaborative prediction&quot; sounds just as bad.  I don&#039;t think most people see much a difference between &quot;forecasting&quot; and &quot;prediction&quot;, other than that &quot;forecasting&quot; is a word used a lot more often in business contexts.   That seems to me a good reason to use &quot;forecasting.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Collective prediction&#8221; sounds a lot more awkward to my ear than &#8220;collective forecasting.&#8221;  &#8220;Collaborative prediction&#8221; sounds just as bad.  I don&#8217;t think most people see much a difference between &#8220;forecasting&#8221; and &#8220;prediction&#8221;, other than that &#8220;forecasting&#8221; is a word used a lot more often in business contexts.   That seems to me a good reason to use &#8220;forecasting.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Hewitt</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24093</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Hewitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 14:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24093</guid>
		<description>Actually, I believe that PMs are a component of CI (possibly appropriate for &quot;cognition&quot; problems).  Everyone needs to be reminded that PMs are merely *tools* to be used in the decision-making *process*.   I&#039;m not sure that the EPM guys are looking at the planning problem from a &quot;completely different standpoint *than* forecasting.&quot;  I think it is more appropriate to say they have a new tool that can help improve the accuracy of forecasts.  Similarly, if other non-trading collective intelligence mechanisms can assist in generating accurate forecasts, what&#039;s wrong with putting them in the same boat?  They&#039;re both tools in the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I believe that PMs are a component of CI (possibly appropriate for &#8220;cognition&#8221; problems).  Everyone needs to be reminded that PMs are merely *tools* to be used in the decision-making *process*.   I&#8217;m not sure that the EPM guys are looking at the planning problem from a &#8220;completely different standpoint *than* forecasting.&#8221;  I think it is more appropriate to say they have a new tool that can help improve the accuracy of forecasts.  Similarly, if other non-trading collective intelligence mechanisms can assist in generating accurate forecasts, what&#8217;s wrong with putting them in the same boat?  They&#8217;re both tools in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24092</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 13:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24092</guid>
		<description>Paul,

I am following the field of prediction markets (public and private) since 2003. I have always heard the EPM guys saying that there are attacking the corporate planning problem from a completely different standpoint than forecasting, using information aggregation, powered by traders who are not necessarily experts.

That is why I wonder whether it is clever to put EPMs and the non-trading collective intelligence mechanisms under the &quot;forecasting&quot; tent. PMs and CI are very different (I would dare to day, &quot;opposite&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul,</p>
<p>I am following the field of prediction markets (public and private) since 2003. I have always heard the EPM guys saying that there are attacking the corporate planning problem from a completely different standpoint than forecasting, using information aggregation, powered by traders who are not necessarily experts.</p>
<p>That is why I wonder whether it is clever to put EPMs and the non-trading collective intelligence mechanisms under the &#8220;forecasting&#8221; tent. PMs and CI are very different (I would dare to day, &#8220;opposite&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Hewitt</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24091</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Hewitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 10:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24091</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris...

I gather you are attacking the issue from a *public* prediction market perspective, whereas I am looking at it from the EPM side.  Collective forecasting is a reasonable term for EPMs.  I should note that *all* prediction markets are &quot;models&quot;, though they are not deterministic.

If we need a separate term for public prediction markets, maybe &quot;crowd crystal-balling for fun and profit&quot; says it all (with smaller words)?  (I&#039;m kidding).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris&#8230;</p>
<p>I gather you are attacking the issue from a *public* prediction market perspective, whereas I am looking at it from the EPM side.  Collective forecasting is a reasonable term for EPMs.  I should note that *all* prediction markets are &#8220;models&#8221;, though they are not deterministic.</p>
<p>If we need a separate term for public prediction markets, maybe &#8220;crowd crystal-balling for fun and profit&#8221; says it all (with smaller words)?  (I&#8217;m kidding).</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24090</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 07:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24090</guid>
		<description> I have asked prof Gelman...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have asked prof Gelman&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F. Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2009/05/24/collective-forecasting-anyone/#comment-24089</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F. Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 07:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/?p=13916#comment-24089</guid>
		<description>&quot;To me, it has no negative connotation that may be associated with weather â€œforecastsâ€.&quot;

Daniel, does the term &quot;forecasting&quot; have a connotation associated with predictive models? That is the damn question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To me, it has no negative connotation that may be associated with weather â€œforecastsâ€.&#8221;</p>
<p>Daniel, does the term &#8220;forecasting&#8221; have a connotation associated with predictive models? That is the damn question.</p>
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