Folks,
I’m pasting below a message I have received from event derivative trader George Riley (gwrileydist -AT- aol -dot- com, if you want to send him trading tips). Read it in full slowly, and decide by yourself whether you side with George or with InTrade on this one.
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Hello, I am new to investing in prediction markets. I love them! I especially love trading in the political futures markets on Intrade. Today however I decided to trade some of the DOW Hourlies. I have been starting small to just test the water I bit. I thought I was the man earlier today because my contracts expired correctly when the DOW finished +50 at 12pm. My google finance screen exactly at 12pm had the DOW above 50-points. In fact I even starred at it for over a minute to make sure there were no surprises.
My account was credited and I felt great. I stayed at the computer for over 5-minutes and nothing changed. My account balance was appropriately credited and all was well.
Then, I go and lift weights and I check on my account two hours later and I notice that my account now has 140.00 less in it. But I didn’t even trade anything!!!!
So I contacted the live help and this is what transpired:
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Hello, you are now chatting with ‘Stephen’
Stephen: Hello. How may I help you?
george riley: hello stephen….i thought i had about $1190 as my account
balance….
george riley: that was what was shown after my last trade today
george riley: now it shows
961.25
george riley: i saw at the top in account history this message:
george riley: Trade PL Adj Debit
george riley: 140.00
george riley: where in the world did that come from….i didnt even trade
anything after those contracts expired at 12pm
Stephen: The 12pm +50 was initially expired at 100 then corrected to 0 as it
finished -49.2
george riley: no way….i have two clocks going on it
george riley: exactly at 12pm it hit +50
george riley: my account was already credited
Stephen: The print showed it was -49
Stephen: I can get the exact figure if you like?
george riley: how can I have ANY faith in intrade if this is what happens
george riley: I was already credited
Stephen: Yes and it was immediately corrected.
Stephen: Sorry for any inconvenience but your account balance is correct
george riley: I am only starting out on intrade just to test the waters and
to see how things go I want to be able to trust this place
Stephen: It was 13532.26
george riley: then why was I credited?
george riley: it was like that for over 5minutes
Stephen: It was initially expired at 100 in error then immediately corrected
Stephen: You account balance will now be correct
george riley: How can I trust this place?
Stephen: Because your account balance is correct. Sorry for any inconvenience
but the error was corrected and all accounts are now correct
Stephen: You did not lose money from this.
george riley: how do you figure?
Stephen: The contract should have expired at 0 which is what it is expired at
george riley: I am sorry if I am taking my frustration out on you but I am
just trying to understand how things work aroudn here
george riley: thus, since it expired at 0 I lost money
george riley: so I did lose money from this
Stephen: Yes as you bought OVER 50 when in fact it was UNDER 50
Stephen: So your account balance is correct
george riley: please….I want to do business with Intrade in the
future….this is a trust thing….I just want what was credited to my account
Stephen: You account balance is correct
george riley: I really do love Intrade and want to do more business
george riley: who else may I speak to?
Stephen: I am a supervisor. Your account balance is correct
george riley: if there was ANY uncertainty I should have NEVER been credited
george riley: why would I EVER be credited if there was ANY uncertainty?
george riley: please understand my point of view this would not be an issue
for me AT ALL if I was never originally credited for it
Stephen: As stated there was an error which was corrected. Your account
balance is now correct.
george riley: plus….EVERYTHING on my screens should i was correct
Stephen: Sorry if they money was originally added to your account but you
will understand that the error has now been corrected and all accounts are
correct.
george riley: please….credit my account like you originally did….
Stephen: As before : it printed at 13532.26 and so expired at 0
george riley: are you familiar with midasoracle.org?
Stephen: Is there anything else I can help you with?
Stephen: It is not a site I regularly visit. However as before your account
is correct and so will not be altered at this stage.
Stephen: Is there anything else I can help you with?
george riley: please credit my information before i e-mail this chat to them
and tell them of this situation
george riley: it is an influential blog in the prediction market community
george riley: i feel completely and utterly jerked around
Stephen: As before : your account balance is correct.
george riley: if there is ever uncertainty you dont credit people’s accounts
until you are sure
george riley: why is that hard?
Stephen: It is a very rare occurance and not one you are ever liklely to
experience again. However as the account is correct no alterations will be made.
Stephen: Apart from this is there anything else I can help you with?
george riley: i feel so jerked around
george riley: i cant even get a trading credit from this ordeal caused by
intrade?
Stephen: No : as above your account balance is correct
Stephen: Is there anything else I can help you with?
george riley: I just 3want my faith in Intrade restored
george riley: I am the customer here
george riley: Intrade made the mistake…not me
Stephen: As you will see your balance is correct.
george riley: yet I am being punished
Stephen: You are not as your account balance is correct.
Stephen: Is there anything else I can help you with?
george riley: it is not
Stephen: You are not as your account balance is correct.
Stephen:
Stephen: Are you trying to atate it finished at over 50?
Stephen: Is there anything else I can help you with?
Stephen: Goodbye. Please let us know if you need anything else.
Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.
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After this incident how can I ever trust trading the DOW Hourlies ever again on Intrade?
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Next: Deep Throat on the latest InTrade-TradeSports so-called incident.
Related: InTrade-TradeSports forum
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Chris, I still don’t understand exactly what transpired here. Intrade’s exchange managers can be pretty anal and refuse to admit a mistake sometimes, but I still don’t see exactly what went wrong, and in any case I have never seen a complaint like this.
Furthermore, he seemed to be “performing for the camera” a lot more than he was actually outlining what actually went wrong … once there was an issue where the finance.yahoo.com ticker has been about one second off the DJIA’s actual print, and people who trusted Yahoo’s ticker ended up getting massively burned. But although people were pissed, Intrade still made the right call.
I have had my share of brawls with Intrade, but this seems odd and suspect … just my less than informed 2c
Alex-
This is George Riley responding to your comment. I love your blog and I check
it out once a day. My sister went to St. Mary’s and I have two cousins who
graduated from Notre Dame.
What transpired was Intrade clearly credited my account $140.00 after the
DOW appeared to cross +50pts after 11am. I saw this everywhere I looked and
apparently Intrade saw the same thing (originally at least). As stated in the
e-mail to Chris I even starred at the screen for a little bit to make sure it
was correct. All was good. Five minutes or so later I my account is
CREDITED the money! Now, if Intrade had any doubts at all why would they go and
immeditately credit me the money? When I went to check on my account later I
was shocked to see that I then had $140 less in it.
Alex, trust me, I was not “playing to the cameras.” It wasn’t until the end
of my conversation that I even thought it would be worthwhile to send this
to a blog. I would much rather have my money back than to be given the chance
to play to the cameras. I do however think that people should be aware of
how they may be jerked around by Intrade at least when it comes to the DOW
Hourlies. I learned my lesson I won’t be trading that event again.
Thanks –george
- InTrade expired the contract the right way ultimately, it seems.
http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/06/15/deep-throat-on-the-latest-intrade-tradesports-so-called-incident/
- However, InTrade first expired it wrongly, and the “OVER 50″ speculators believed that they won —for a short moment.
- So the problematic for InTrade is: When InTrade makes a quick mistake, how to apologize the right way in order to appease the speculators who, for a short moment, thought they won the deal? Should InTrade send a formal e-mail to explain clearly the mistake and apologize? It’s all a question of manners, it seems to me.
- We all make mistakes, sporadically. We should apologize and take responsibility for our mistakes. When this is done the proper way, people understand and are forgiving.