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	<title>Comments on: Danger of &#8220;self-fulfilling prophecy&#8221; in political event markets</title>
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	<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/</link>
	<description>Prediction Markets, etc.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 23:13:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Chris Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-923</guid>
		<description>Hanson, Oprea and Porter paper:
http://hanson.gmu.edu/biastest.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hanson, Oprea and Porter paper:<br />
<a href="http://hanson.gmu.edu/biastest.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://hanson.gmu.edu/biastest.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jason Ruspini</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Ruspini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 03:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-918</guid>
		<description>Also, a long-term index market is going to be more susceptible to manipulation than a binary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, a long-term index market is going to be more susceptible to manipulation than a binary.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Crampton</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-917</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Crampton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 02:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-917</guid>
		<description>The Hanson, Oprea and Porter paper is at http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/Markets/oprea.pdf

Am finally listening to the Yahoo conference; I love the shoutout to Chris there (around the 49 minute mark)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Hanson, Oprea and Porter paper is at <a href="http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/Markets/oprea.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://dimacs.rutgers.edu/Workshops/Markets/oprea.pdf</a></p>
<p>Am finally listening to the Yahoo conference; I love the shoutout to Chris there (around the 49 minute mark)</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Forshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-916</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Forshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 01:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-916</guid>
		<description>Not familiar with the paper. As far as increasing the return to informed traders, yeah, I can see that :)

But I don&#039;t think huge information asymmetry is &quot;good for the market.&quot; It&#039;s kind of an apples and oranges situation, intuitively -- if a market&#039;s peculiars give rise to asymmetry, then the end point of that market, assuming no rent seeking (ha, yeah right) is simply going to be very different from the &quot;long run equilibrium&quot; of a conventional market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not familiar with the paper. As far as increasing the return to informed traders, yeah, I can see that <img src='http://www.midasoracle.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think huge information asymmetry is &#8220;good for the market.&#8221; It&#8217;s kind of an apples and oranges situation, intuitively &#8212; if a market&#8217;s peculiars give rise to asymmetry, then the end point of that market, assuming no rent seeking (ha, yeah right) is simply going to be very different from the &#8220;long run equilibrium&#8221; of a conventional market.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Crampton</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-915</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Crampton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 01:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-915</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t Hanson and Oprea show that this sort of thing increases the return to informed traders and is actually good for the market?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Hanson and Oprea show that this sort of thing increases the return to informed traders and is actually good for the market?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Forshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Forshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-913</guid>
		<description>Chris -- thanks for hunting down Prawf Strumpf&#039;s paper.

Jason -- for sure. If a market has become disproportionately momentum-driven (due to information asymmetry or groupthink), then that would mean that traders are taking other people&#039;s trades as new information, not subjective distillations of the same information.

In this case, you have massive information asymmetry and lots of non-monetary payoffs for the people who are advantaged by that very same asymmetry. The result is somewhat analogous to a poker table of anonymous players, and someone makes an anonymous raise. There&#039;s no way to judge the credibility of the raise, so theoretically the &quot;dominant strategy&quot; is to make the raise, or fold to someone else&#039;s raise. 

You could make the same argument for stocks and bonds, but the trader of a stock, for example, is really trading on a huge collection of events. Even if he&#039;s just trading a single stock, his &quot;unsystematic risk&quot; is still much lower than the event trader&#039;s, because the equities trader knows that there will be a distribution of events in which the good ones will largely cancel out the bad ones -- except in the case of a single &quot;major pricing event,&quot; i.e., a quarterly report, when one piece of information is so important that it overrides all others. When you are just trading on a single person, you only have one stream of events to trade on, so the fluctuations are that much higher. (A multinational publicly traded company has tons of streams of events to affect its price, most of which end up canceling each other out).

In the cases I linked to, I judged it to be the same individual based on size and suddenness of the bet -- really just groping for some consistency with which to identify the raiser. Plus, it was not &quot;intelligent&quot; trader behavior, because it incurred lots of unnecessary costs.

It&#039;s so conjectural. Even if I was correct, that person has surely learned to better hide his tracks. 

Silly me, grasping for fame and recognition only to give the game away ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris &#8212; thanks for hunting down Prawf Strumpf&#8217;s paper.</p>
<p>Jason &#8212; for sure. If a market has become disproportionately momentum-driven (due to information asymmetry or groupthink), then that would mean that traders are taking other people&#8217;s trades as new information, not subjective distillations of the same information.</p>
<p>In this case, you have massive information asymmetry and lots of non-monetary payoffs for the people who are advantaged by that very same asymmetry. The result is somewhat analogous to a poker table of anonymous players, and someone makes an anonymous raise. There&#8217;s no way to judge the credibility of the raise, so theoretically the &#8220;dominant strategy&#8221; is to make the raise, or fold to someone else&#8217;s raise. </p>
<p>You could make the same argument for stocks and bonds, but the trader of a stock, for example, is really trading on a huge collection of events. Even if he&#8217;s just trading a single stock, his &#8220;unsystematic risk&#8221; is still much lower than the event trader&#8217;s, because the equities trader knows that there will be a distribution of events in which the good ones will largely cancel out the bad ones &#8212; except in the case of a single &#8220;major pricing event,&#8221; i.e., a quarterly report, when one piece of information is so important that it overrides all others. When you are just trading on a single person, you only have one stream of events to trade on, so the fluctuations are that much higher. (A multinational publicly traded company has tons of streams of events to affect its price, most of which end up canceling each other out).</p>
<p>In the cases I linked to, I judged it to be the same individual based on size and suddenness of the bet &#8212; really just groping for some consistency with which to identify the raiser. Plus, it was not &#8220;intelligent&#8221; trader behavior, because it incurred lots of unnecessary costs.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s so conjectural. Even if I was correct, that person has surely learned to better hide his tracks. </p>
<p>Silly me, grasping for fame and recognition only to give the game away <img src='http://www.midasoracle.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jason Ruspini</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Ruspini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-912</guid>
		<description>I think it is largely a liquidity issue and I&#039;m not sure what to make of Intrade prices at this point.  I can tell you that I would have &quot;corrected&quot; a few prices including Gore&#039;s run-up into the teens if it weren&#039;t such a risk to move money there.

That said, I do think some of the literature on manipulation understates its viability because it doesn&#039;t consider what happens when traders take the manipulated price as new information.   And this is separate and primary to the actual self-fulfilling aspect, where some parties get non-monetary payoffs from price action, and that price action can have an effect on campaign decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is largely a liquidity issue and I&#8217;m not sure what to make of Intrade prices at this point.  I can tell you that I would have &#8220;corrected&#8221; a few prices including Gore&#8217;s run-up into the teens if it weren&#8217;t such a risk to move money there.</p>
<p>That said, I do think some of the literature on manipulation understates its viability because it doesn&#8217;t consider what happens when traders take the manipulated price as new information.   And this is separate and primary to the actual self-fulfilling aspect, where some parties get non-monetary payoffs from price action, and that price action can have an effect on campaign decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-911</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 15:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2007/02/06/danger-of-self-fulfilling-prophecy-in-political-event-markets/#comment-911</guid>
		<description>&quot;political event markets&quot;: political event FUTURES/DERIVATIVES markets

Historical Presidential Betting Markets
http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/BettingPaper_10Nov2003_long2.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;political event markets&#8221;: political event FUTURES/DERIVATIVES markets</p>
<p>Historical Presidential Betting Markets<br />
<a href="http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/BettingPaper_10Nov2003_long2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/BettingPaper_10Nov2003_long2.pdf</a></p>
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