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	<title>Comments on: Libertarian baiting</title>
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	<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/</link>
	<description>Prediction Markets For All</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Analysis of Barr and Nader 2008 Intrade contracts &#124; Midas Oracle .ORG</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-22677</link>
		<dc:creator>Analysis of Barr and Nader 2008 Intrade contracts &#124; Midas Oracle .ORG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-22677</guid>
		<description>[...] More trades! Why are libertarians afraid of the market? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More trades! Why are libertarians afraid of the market? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Barr markets &#124; Midas Oracle .ORG</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-19561</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Barr markets &#124; Midas Oracle .ORG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-19561</guid>
		<description>[...] a libertarian periodical, writes that the Bob Barr effect is &#8220;confirmed.&#8221; Because Obama&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a libertarian periodical, writes that the Bob Barr effect is &#8220;confirmed.&#8221; Because Obama&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Linksvayer</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Linksvayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-400</guid>
		<description>Alex, the protest vote never has been a significant factor. Libertarians did not shift their votes from the LP to the Democrats in 2006. The &lt;a href="http://www.ballot-access.org/2006/11/19/which-minor-party-did-best-in-us-house-races/" rel="nofollow"&gt;LP got more votes in comparable congressional races than it did in 2004&lt;/a&gt; (but still amounted to nothing).

The last couple cycles &lt;a href="http://www.tcsdaily.com/Article.aspx?ID=121106B" rel="nofollow"&gt;libertarians have been increasingly voting for Democrats instead of Republicans&lt;/a&gt;. That's the significant trend, though I think it has a whole lot more to do with the GOP settling into DC than the Democrats cozying up to Wall St.

I shhould've left out the fringe electoral part of the above post, it was a funny afterthought, an embarrassing lapse of self control. There is no point in mocking the hopeless and irrelevant. It isn't even funny. I will. Stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, the protest vote never has been a significant factor. Libertarians did not shift their votes from the LP to the Democrats in 2006. The <a href="http://www.ballot-access.org/2006/11/19/which-minor-party-did-best-in-us-house-races/" rel="nofollow">LP got more votes in comparable congressional races than it did in 2004</a> (but still amounted to nothing).</p>
<p>The last couple cycles <a href="http://www.tcsdaily.com/Article.aspx?ID=121106B" rel="nofollow">libertarians have been increasingly voting for Democrats instead of Republicans</a>. That&#8217;s the significant trend, though I think it has a whole lot more to do with the GOP settling into DC than the Democrats cozying up to Wall St.</p>
<p>I shhould&#8217;ve left out the fringe electoral part of the above post, it was a funny afterthought, an embarrassing lapse of self control. There is no point in mocking the hopeless and irrelevant. It isn&#8217;t even funny. I will. Stop.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Forshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Forshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-395</guid>
		<description>Libertarian vote share never counted as "leverage" in terms of the Libertarians having a representative who brought the GOP to the negotiating table to hammer out something that would be mutually satisfactory to libertarians and conservatives. But it was always a protest outlet that (should have) kept the GOP somewhat wary of spending too much time on Terri Schiavo gamesmanship and not enough on things that actually matter to the non-hardcore theo 70%.

I think that this time, the libertarians just went Democrat instead of registering a protest vote. Libertarians have decided that party differences on social issues are far wider than differences on economic ones, and economic differences became impossible to discern in a Friedmanite (government spending not taxes) sense. So libertarians are going to settle with the Democrats for a good while.

Now that Wall St. seems to have a lot of sway over the D's, I think the libertarians will find themselves surprisingly comfortable in the Democratic Party over the next few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libertarian vote share never counted as &#8220;leverage&#8221; in terms of the Libertarians having a representative who brought the GOP to the negotiating table to hammer out something that would be mutually satisfactory to libertarians and conservatives. But it was always a protest outlet that (should have) kept the GOP somewhat wary of spending too much time on Terri Schiavo gamesmanship and not enough on things that actually matter to the non-hardcore theo 70%.</p>
<p>I think that this time, the libertarians just went Democrat instead of registering a protest vote. Libertarians have decided that party differences on social issues are far wider than differences on economic ones, and economic differences became impossible to discern in a Friedmanite (government spending not taxes) sense. So libertarians are going to settle with the Democrats for a good while.</p>
<p>Now that Wall St. seems to have a lot of sway over the D&#8217;s, I think the libertarians will find themselves surprisingly comfortable in the Democratic Party over the next few years.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Linksvayer</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Linksvayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-392</guid>
		<description>Alex, anything LPers want (and they are collectively schizoid about what that is), they are bad at getting it. Their "leverage" was always retrospective and imaginary.

Smither did have some legitimate support, which made his candidacy marginally interesting to traders. The Intrade market accurately reflected his lack of critical mass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, anything LPers want (and they are collectively schizoid about what that is), they are bad at getting it. Their &#8220;leverage&#8221; was always retrospective and imaginary.</p>
<p>Smither did have some legitimate support, which made his candidacy marginally interesting to traders. The Intrade market accurately reflected his lack of critical mass.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Forshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Forshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-391</guid>
		<description>The LP doesn't want to win. It wants to take away enough net votes from one party or the other to be a powerbroker. Over the past few years, it has cost the GOP quite a few Senate seats and governorships, so it is making its point--the problem is that, because libertarians are, if anything, more Democratic now, the LP has lost leverage on the Republican Party. Five years ago, the consensus was that Libertarians cost the GOP 2 voters for every voter they cost the Democrats, but the times they are a-changin.

Re: Byrne, NY has had very idiosyncratic third-party rules in place since the Progressive era that allow candidates to run on multiple party lines. Buckley ran as both a Conservative and a Republican if memory serves, and the vote was split between a Liberal and a Democrat, so he nosed his way in between them.

And as for Smither, a lot of Republicans (particularly Erick of http://www.redstate.com) wanted Smither over Sekula-Gibbs. There was legitimate support for Smither at all levels, but it didn't reach a critical mass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The LP doesn&#8217;t want to win. It wants to take away enough net votes from one party or the other to be a powerbroker. Over the past few years, it has cost the GOP quite a few Senate seats and governorships, so it is making its point&#8211;the problem is that, because libertarians are, if anything, more Democratic now, the LP has lost leverage on the Republican Party. Five years ago, the consensus was that Libertarians cost the GOP 2 voters for every voter they cost the Democrats, but the times they are a-changin.</p>
<p>Re: Byrne, NY has had very idiosyncratic third-party rules in place since the Progressive era that allow candidates to run on multiple party lines. Buckley ran as both a Conservative and a Republican if memory serves, and the vote was split between a Liberal and a Democrat, so he nosed his way in between them.</p>
<p>And as for Smither, a lot of Republicans (particularly Erick of <a href="http://www.redstate.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.redstate.com</a>) wanted Smither over Sekula-Gibbs. There was legitimate support for Smither at all levels, but it didn&#8217;t reach a critical mass.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Masse</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Masse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-389</guid>
		<description>I would prefer that a think tank pays InTrade-TradeSports or BetFair to set up socially relevant prediction markets, instead of running anything.

You said: "This could involve setting up and running a non-profit exchange or paying Intrade to offer certain contracts, or variations between."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would prefer that a think tank pays InTrade-TradeSports or BetFair to set up socially relevant prediction markets, instead of running anything.</p>
<p>You said: &#8220;This could involve setting up and running a non-profit exchange or paying Intrade to offer certain contracts, or variations between.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Linksvayer</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Linksvayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-388</guid>
		<description>If Wikipedia says a particular individual is a think thank, perhaps, otherwise no.

But there are startup think tanks that are more or less one person operations plus support from networks like Atlas and the State Policy Network that would qualify.  See the &lt;a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/17/us/politics/17thinktank.html?ex=1321419600&#38;en=3b6af3fbfa4ff01e&#38;ei=5090&#38;partner=rssuserland&#38;emc=rss/think" rel="nofollow"&gt;NYT on think tank startups last month&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Wikipedia says a particular individual is a think thank, perhaps, otherwise no.</p>
<p>But there are startup think tanks that are more or less one person operations plus support from networks like Atlas and the State Policy Network that would qualify.  See the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/17/us/politics/17thinktank.html?ex=1321419600&amp;en=3b6af3fbfa4ff01e&amp;ei=5090&amp;partner=rssuserland&amp;emc=rss/think" rel="nofollow">NYT on think tank startups last month</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Byrne Hobart</title>
		<link>http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>Byrne Hobart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.midasoracle.org/2006/12/13/libertarian-baiting/#comment-387</guid>
		<description>The Libertarian party is like any other third party; they don't want to win so much as they want to make people who disagree with them &lt;i&gt;lose&lt;/i&gt;. When William F. Buckley ran for mayor of New York (on the Conservative) ticket, he was asked what he'd do if he won. His answer: "Demand a recount." He didn't win, but he took away enough votes to cause an upset (and his brother later won a Senate seat as a Conservative). If irresponsible LP members are promising a victory, they're doing it because that's what politicians have to do to be taken seriously; if they're expecting a defeat, they're as delusional as you claim.

I don't see a party doing much with political futures -- parties are organizations used to win elections, not to determine good policies, and I don't think there's a lot of election-winning expertise that a market can tap but a campaign manager can't. I don't think the LP is any good at winning elections (obviously), which is why I'm a Republican. But they really don't deserve to be mocked for something they aren't trying to accomplish in the first place.

The think-tank offer is noted. Do individuals count as think-tanks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Libertarian party is like any other third party; they don&#8217;t want to win so much as they want to make people who disagree with them <i>lose</i>. When William F. Buckley ran for mayor of New York (on the Conservative) ticket, he was asked what he&#8217;d do if he won. His answer: &#8220;Demand a recount.&#8221; He didn&#8217;t win, but he took away enough votes to cause an upset (and his brother later won a Senate seat as a Conservative). If irresponsible LP members are promising a victory, they&#8217;re doing it because that&#8217;s what politicians have to do to be taken seriously; if they&#8217;re expecting a defeat, they&#8217;re as delusional as you claim.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see a party doing much with political futures &#8212; parties are organizations used to win elections, not to determine good policies, and I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a lot of election-winning expertise that a market can tap but a campaign manager can&#8217;t. I don&#8217;t think the LP is any good at winning elections (obviously), which is why I&#8217;m a Republican. But they really don&#8217;t deserve to be mocked for something they aren&#8217;t trying to accomplish in the first place.</p>
<p>The think-tank offer is noted. Do individuals count as think-tanks?</p>
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